TBARA – Discuss It.
It wasn't too long ago that the TBARA brought big fields of sprint cars and played to packed houses, but times have changed.
It is no secret that the 2012 racing season has proven to be a bumpy one for the TBARA. While the racing at the pointy end of the field has been good, car counts have ranged from good to poor and there have been race cancellations, first with the event at Watermelon Capitol Speedway in Cordele, GA and now it appears that the TBARA races at Desoto Speedway are being removed as well.
While the economy is certainly not good, it’s not worse than last year, and certainly not worse than 2009, when we actually had higher car counts, but it’s also not going to get much better any time soon. Prosperous times are not within sight for quite some time.
This is not a pretty chart, but GDP shows insight into recession recovery. Toward the end of a recession, you want to see 3% growth to move things in a positive direction. That is not happening right now.
So what is the point of this article then?
Well, we like to think our readers are an intelligent lot and most of you have supported the TBARA for many years on end, including us. But as Albert Einstein once famously said, “Insanity is doing the same thing over and over, yet expecting different results.”
I’ve always said I would like to see concessions for spec and crate engines to get them into cars and out on tracks, and yes there is one out there now with the TBARA, but I look at the blended rules packages that are popping up around the country in pavement late model racing to get more cars out into one class with each other.
And since diesel prices don’t look to be getting cheaper any time soon, I would say look at the pavement tracks within close proximity of the driver base and just work those tracks for 2013.
Wings? I don’t know that I’m sold on them at the moment.
Diesel? Not cheap.
Obviously participation of all parties – drivers, owners, tracks, fans is key for 2013. So we say, while things are slow at the moment, lets all put our heads together for some ideas for 2013 and get things pointed in the right direction.
Hell, maybe we should organize a town hall meeting some Saturday at high noon in the Tampa area, invite all of the above and throw ideas at the wall and see what sticks.
So post your thoughts, be constructive, no politics, no name calling, you know, the usual.
Let’s hear it.
As a fan, I can’t say that it would make a big difference to me if the cars were two seconds a lap slower, I just don’t want to go to another TBARA race where twelve cars show up and most of them pull off before it is halfway over. I think crates are for putting stuff in, but there needs to be a way to be competitive without a Gaerte or Claxton.
As far as some more sizzle in the show, does anybody outside of the club really understand how they lineup the feature? I say run your heats, then do like the late model shows do and have a fan roll a giant fuzzy dice to set the inversion. That I get.
Keep the wings.
Todd all i know is that up in Indiana there doesn’t seem to be a problem with cars or attendence. No matter if it is dirt or asphalt, people show up to watch and racers show to race. Thursday through Sunday, you can go to any track in Indiana and watch your favorite sprint car driver race. But the difference is the tracks do advertise through multiple ways, not just a web site, what is going on at there local venue. I learned from the best, you can have Hulk Hogan vs Andre the giant wrestle at the Cracker Barrel off I-4, admission free. If it’s not advertised, your attendence will be the same as what Desoto gets for a TBARA race. That is not a dig at the racers of TBARA because they are a great bunch of guys, the tracks have to let the people know what is happening at the their track that week…
Lou Cabre #12
Times are tough for the 99 percent. Give or take a few percent. Without getting political it is an election year, which typically means everything is in a holding pattern. Pretty obvious that things for the most part in this country are a mess. I personally don’t believe there will ever be a concensus on what will bring back the “good ol’ days”. What I do believe is that racers are racers and you can’t take that away from us! TBARA is a wonderful series and is a “elite” series. Always has been. Lets face it guys who race a pure stock can only dream of a sprint car. so when times get tough, as they really are, elite series will struggle. What probally is the bigges hinderance to TBARA is in fact desoto speedway. That track has been in and out of shambles since Tom Stimus was slamming hoods on his TV commercials! “Thats some history for you boys and girls”. . If the link doesn’t work google “tom stimus” and see. Good stuff with dust rhodes. Only time will tell. my two cents.
They had 11 cars in April or May at Anderson for a 100 lap non wing race.
Ben Fritz
I Have asphalt sprinter waiting for rules or track that will run sprints on regular basis. Maybe gear, wing and tire rule is needed maybe larger limited motors can run with open 360 like 402ci flat top pistons flat tappet cam and wet sump. Go for cheap hard tires cause new ones will always be faster, lay wings down may be flat top. Another thing the older guys know is the payout is about the same as 30 years ago and it can`t change so cost of cars must if you want new guys and full fields.
I’m with Charlie Lee there 100%, there have to be rule changes if the TBARA is going get back to being the big draw in this state. Hell, Top Gun has been pulling 20+ most nights and the TBARA ran old Rehms out of town. The TBARA car count has gone down to pretty bad levels, the purse is down and I don’t see how any new tracks are going to want to pay the TBARA’s price for bringing 12 cars and half of those are pulling off. I do agree about being an elite series, but what good is an elite series if no one will book them and no cars are showing up? I think the tires need to be harder so that it makes a certain amount of horsepower not a factor because you’ll just spin the tires or burn them off. No crates, whoever said crates are for carrying stuff hit the nail on the head. Those things get so cheated up its stupid. As far as tracks go, open with New Smyrna for Speedweeks, then spend the rest of the year at Inverness, Punta Gorda and Sunshine when it opens up.
Well most the super high dollar engine teams have moved on and the high dollar guys that are left are winning the races. The time might be right to change the engine rules and allow some lower cost engines in the series. Remember once the weight rules was put in place we had a lot more winners from through out the pack. The big thing is to stop the start and park guys in some way so we do not have half the field in the infeild. Like a bonus for taking the checkered flag. I have moved on and gone back to modifieds because Sunshine is reopenning and the lower cost involved. I will tell you that I made a lot of friends in the TBARA and will comeback in the future. Good Luck to everyone in the TBARA and Sprint Car racing.
Well the thing we need is cars at shows and it is truly politics. Some people don’t like this person or that person, so they keep their stuff parked. Others are hoping the economy picks up. As far as the start and parks, how can you control it? If a guy thinks he has a problem he will park. Cant check everyone of them for something broke. The TBARA still brings more cars to the track than most classes there. The tracks that have big crowds bring them there with ads and specials for the fans. Yes the pay is the same and cars cost more, but it is the owners that run costs up, you get beat they buy something new looking for that extra, but dont knock’em just cause they spend their money different. Sorry the races at desoto are cancelled, maybe they can survive with the crowds they have, but it looks bleek at this time.
I agree we need to cut cost and I think we need to do it where it isn’t a big cost, like new engines. Like it was said before flat tappet cam and lifters are cheap and mandate the size and seat pressure of the valve spring. This is easy to tech and it will lower rpm’s to 6200 to 6500. This will also make new tires not as big of an advantage. This can be done at a low cost to everyone. Flat wings would be nice, but everybody has to buy one. Son let’s take the wickers off and no more than 18 degrees angle. I wouldn’t go to real hard tires because we need lots of passing, that’s what puts fans in the seats. I think this could put a good field of cars on track and get way from start and park cars. This only makes track owners mad and causes more problems. The weight rule is good but we need scales so the cars are checked every night. We need TBARA strong, and cutting cost has to be done.
change is needed but not everyone is a engine builder and to make people spend on things is not helping. no we dont need high dollar equipment but i wouldnt change my motor over from what it is or i would just build a dirt car and park the ashpalt car till some sense is made of all this. does this mean the rest of the season is in trouble i hope not.
I know that it is almost impossible to get everyone on the same page,but it sure would be nice to have the old TBARA style running Dirt and pavement and work towards making it POSSIBLE for a low budget like myself be able to run one car on dirt and pavement. Unfortunatley I think that we are all going in opposite directions and the big dollar/big egos will never agree. If it gets too rule crazy it makes it rediculous to police and the whiners blame every multiple winner of cheating. I say increase the purse though the field (i.e. less to win) and that will keep us from going crazy on motors and for now maybe cripple motor combinations by weight or ??? I shouldn’t be saying anything because the economy has stopped me but it sure would be cool if all of the Sprints in Florida were working together.
I have to agree with Todd on this one. There are plenty of cars with the motor packages we have now. Crate motors are a joke. They wind up with ten grand in a piece of crap motor that none of our current stuff works on. It doesn’t make it cheaper if you obsolete the motors out there or the make the racers spend more money for just different stuff. I won at desoto with a motor that was originally built in 1995. So, it is possible to go fast and be competitive without a 30,000 dollars motor. As far as tires, I’ve run series where they tried to control horsepower with tires and it doesn’t work. When tires are spinning the big motor still prevail. Also the hard tires were more expensive. The softest they were was with the sticker on them, if you tried to run them two weeks and the other guys could afford to buy stickers every week, you were screwed. The racing sucked to, single file follow the leader crap. The few races I’ve run with the tbara this season, I’ve bought a right rear every week, but have run the other three tires for three weeks now. If the car is stuck to the track, and hooked up with a good wing, the tire temps are cooler, therefore they last longer.
The problem is, Florida is a construction based state, whether it be concrete, flooring, or even down to surveying, and right now that market is dead. Sponsors are gone and a lot of our racers are out of work. You can’t race if you don’t have money for the basics first.
As far as desoto, that’s just piss poor marketing and planning on the tracks part. If a series promoter calls you three weeks in advance and tells you there is a big race going on in the state that weekend and suggests moving the date around, and the track tells him tough shit, get the cars here, that sounds like a hard headed track owner that doesn’t know how to manage properly. If I was paying out that kind of money, I would probably have taken that advice and protected my investment a little better.
Again, these are just my opinions, but I know changing rules doesn’t save the racers a dime. And making rules to obsolete the current stuff won’t help either. I’ve run the same motor for ten years, Im not going to buy a new motor. How the hell does that save me money, I already own the one I got? It’s not just the TBARA, car counts are down in every class at every track. If nobody has said it before, welcome to a shitty economy.
Scotty 67
Well said scott. There is no good answer for the problems. But spending money to change what i have is senceless. Desoto has been really bad the last six years or so own the place but needs someone to mamage that can promote the place and quit trying to make it up on the back gate
Ric, I’ve seen it so many times before. When I ran sportsman and modifiers they kept changing the rules to “save us money,” and all we wound up with was shelves full of crap that was either outdated or illegal. The rules are fine, they have been fine for the past fifteen years. TBARA hasn’t had a major technical or engine rule change in over ten years. Your right about the politics. This guy doesn’t like that guy, and so on. There are plenty of cars out there that meet the current rules. Are our cars expensive? Yea, they can be, but that’s why it’s an elite series. Not everybody can afford to race these cars, he’ll, I barely can. But, not everybody can afford to run a super late model either. Up north they even tried to go to a basically stock 305, this kept the cost down for a little bit, but now the motors are 15,000 and up. If you make rules to regulate things, the racers will find a way around it. THAT WHAT WE DO! If the people that have cars and the money to race them are staying home because they don’t like this guy, or that guy, I have this to say. If you don’t support the only pavement sprint car club going now, it may not be here for you later!
Scotty 67
Yes i agree scott the motor package is not the issue here it truely is that the tracks that promote themselves seem to have both car count and fans in the seats. Guys are staying home but if they start changing engine rules there will be less cars than they have now due to cost and that is what the complaints are about cost. Lets just get
some races get paid what is promised and have the tracks keep their word like bussinessman and not try and screw the racer
Ric i agree with what you and Scotty are saying with the motor packages run a 360 alum. head motor “just what everyone has” go to the track and race. The way I see it the racer is always going to get screwed, as long as these track promoters are depending on the track they run to make a diffrence in there personal income.It’s not a business for them it is a part time job on the weekend. If they would take the money and put it back into the track to increase the fan base with ADVERTISING ( there is a new word for us) also to help with the purse. Then you would be surprised on how many cars in every class would show up, as for sprintcars everyone would that owns a car would come back to the tracks to race. Don’t get me wrong they would still complain but it would be about something else. If they were getting decent start money they wouldn’t be complaining about motors. Fact if a track promoted a race with a good pay out for any class all of a sudden there are cars you haven’t seen for years show up. It’s a shame that this is what it has come to pretty soon racers will have to go to Ga. to race if this pace keeps up…
Lou Cabre #12
You said it lou. Its just funny that all over the country tracks are doing well good car count and large purses and they dont talk crap about each other. A friend went to wisconson said they race wensday to sunday from time school is out. Grant it most pf it is dirt racing but the tracks help each other by ADVERTISING where the next race is and at what track they run next…….imagine helping each other what a thought